I just recently had a conversation that I would like to plop down here for no better reason than to bring up some points that are often a part of our conversations when we banter about President Obama. I would be pleased if some of what we talked about strikes some chord in you. So I submit this conversation for all to see, spelling mistakes and grammatical errors and all. I would have cleaned it up a bit , though presenting it outside of it's raw form seems wrong.
...
The Infamous: Oh, Jesus... is this really news? http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Jesus-Missing-From-Obamas-Georgetown-Speech.html
The Infamous: fascinating experiment in misinformation.
Drew: what's the problem?
is it bad or good that he covered the image?
I can't tell anymore :(
The Infamous: I think it's inconsequential
wasn't a secular reason - continuity of imagery
Drew: damned if he does, damned if he doesn't
The Infamous: yup
Drew: Polarizing President, yes? I think those on the side of "Love Him!" are far more numerous than those on the side of "Hate Him!"
The Infamous: by at least 20 percent in the latest poll
60% approval
Drew: I have no doubt he will go down as one of the greatest presidents among JFK, FDR, Lincoln, Washington. First Team all American Presidential All Star Team.
The Infamous: but this whole "tax revolt" is completely manufactured... there has been no tax impact at this point
I absolutely agree w/ you
Drew: "Rome is the mob. Conjure magic for them and they'll be distracted"
people, I have found, are idiots when left to their own devices. All but me and those that think like me ;)
Drew: I am not going to say that everything President Obama does makes me happy. There are many stances he takes that piss me off. His view of the RIAA, his view on vehicles and what people should drive. his view on the bearing of arms. Just to name 3. But just because he doesn't want to preserve everything I like doesn't make me hate him. He seems to be working hard to support his promises and that makes me respect him even more.
There are to many Americans that can't see past their own interests to the greater good of the country. This is a sad realization that the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's evolution of mentality have stripped a common community thread from us all and given us the sad desire to be an nation of individual islands.
If there is anything in what President Obama has done that earned great respect from me is his numerous calls to step outside individual selfishness and buck the fuck up for the good of America.
The Infamous: I absolutely agree with you.
We have to gain a collective awareness that we will not like or agree with everything that even our favored elected leaders will do
and honestly, we shouldn't
that means that they are acting in the interests of the people as a whole, as opposed to just that of a small faction
Drew: acting for the interests as a whole is probably much easier when the whole has some kind of common goal, as opposed to a whole that is as scattered as it's members individuality. I am guessing that being a leader in the 40's and 50's was a bit easier than today's leaders.
The Infamous: agreed
information was not nearly as readily or universally available... message discipline was much easier
So much easier to govern when you have absolute control and/or are the only messenger of much of the information that people learn
Drew: And there was a strong desire to be accepted by the community as a whole. Men didn't do things or say thing openly for fear of being ostrisized or socially exiled. Rule by fear and peer pressure. I won't say it was healthy, but the desire for the little pink house is some of what drove the intense aversion to complete selfishness.
by that i mean resistance to becoming part of the collective.. for a better example.
the stepford wives, plesantville, etc...
I don't want my individuality to be culled from me... but at the same time I would give up individuality for a common good. That's the part of the transition America missed going from the 50's to the 90's
I think that feeling is starting to become common out there among individual American's. I think it's a good thing.
The Infamous: I agree, but htink about where that leads if followed to it's logical conclusion - strips people of their individuality, freedom of expression (in its various forms)... which could lead to outright censorship
who is in charge of determining what those "social norms" should be?
Drew: yes, and that's what the 50's were
bad bad bad
Hoover - example
Wallace - example
The Infamous: I agree that a collective social responsibility is part of what kept society orderly at the time, but think of the blatant persecution and prejudices that were also prominent at the time
ostracizing those that were "different," i.e. gays, blacks, latinos, protestants?
strong women?
I agree there was value and continues to be in the general premise, but I guess I am hardened after having seen what this led to, which really catalyzed many of the changes we have seen take place in the last 50 years
Drew: absolutely. But follow that logic to the opposite side and you get extreme individuality with no common goal. It all boils down to what you said earlier.. we may not like what our leaders do.. and your implied "but we must trust who we elect and allow ourselves to be lead"
The Infamous: now, if you are talking about the general sense of selfishness that has become so pervasive, there would absolutely be some benefit to reinstalling those values
but even in the 50s, the phrase "keeping up with the Jones" originated
i agree w/ you
need to unite around some common sense of purpose
Drew: Yes
and for many that spark has been Obama
The Infamous: all of this discussion is one of the reasons so many of our social institutions have degraded
agreed - the sense that things can be better, and perhaps this man is willing - if not entirely able - to lead us in that direction if we allow it to happen
you need to be a contributor to the blog that G and I just started
Drew: For me I have a common goal with 60% of America now. Obama's performance as President is the horse we have hitched our cart to.
No comments:
Post a Comment